2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Catamarca Livin, Jan 4, 2018.

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  1. rypper

    rypper EhlersHorvatTkachuk

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    Deciding to pursue the age gap falls squarely on his shoulders. What would make up for years of abysmal drafting would be a few years of really good drafting. Instead of shortcuts.
     
  2. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    The Blackhawks were hot garbage until they got Kane and Toews (1 playoff appearance in 12 years),Sharp had some pretty depressing years there.

    Being able to land high end UFA's when you are on the verge of being a SC contender,and citing the GM as being a rocket scientist because of it..does not ring true.
     
  3. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    26 - 32 seems a rather specific range... Estimates are usually rounded, to like 25-30. Perhaps Benning used differential geometry and partial differential equations to output that range?
     
  4. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    In Bennings first draft here.. he drafted 5 NHL players..almost as much as 8 years of previously drafting solid **** all...?
     
  5. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    And he managed to get rid of 3 of them without getting anything useful back. #4 is trending into bust territory (yeah he hasnt really turned the corner and no, the playoffs didnt make him more valueable than Ehlers or Nylander). #5 is trending nicely but has played 1 NHL game so far. So maybe you shouldnt count your chickens just yet.

    There isnt much value to a guy who wins the lottery several times but spends all his winnings on some magic beans.
     
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  6. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    Virtanen is still here
    Gudbranson (plus a 2nd,and McCann..NHL player)
    Demko..will be playing for us next season
    Tryamkin..will be coming back..read todays news
    Forsling..AHL/NHL tweener
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  7. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    But,but..Benning screwed the pooch by missing out on Nylander/Ehlers,and not picking Pastrnak instead of McCann..?..He's supposed to hit on 100% on all of his pix....am i doing this rite?
     
  8. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    We probably just disagree on this but McCann (and the 2nd!) was wasted in the Gudbranson trade. Its a useless player who could be replaced for cheap by a UFA - yet he was resigned for $4m
    Demko - no doubt about, he is looking good but still has to prove his worth in the NHL
    Tryamkin - the news said he will play out his contract and his return "depends on many factors" - to me that doesnt sound like the sure thing you make it out to be
    Forsling - he is a guy you praised in your previous post as one of the 5 NHLers, now he is just a tweener? Oh not to mentioned that he probably would be #3 on the Canucks depth chart right now but yeah he was pissed away for a few games of Clendenning - age gap for the win!
     
  9. CanaFan

    CanaFan Registered User

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    Given the opportunities he’s had (high picks), those are big misses no? More Ehlers/Nylander than Pastrnak.

    Wouldn’t Gillis be criticized more if he’d missed on Horvat? Yes his drafting was poor but at the same time he rarely drafted anywhere as high as Benning has.
     
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  10. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    I'm not sure what the number is (it should be rather a high hit rate)... How many hits is an Eye for Talent guru who sees things that other people don't supposed to get right? How many times should Jesus have to turn blood into wine, for he to be recognized as saviour of the world, and not just an average, run-of-the-mill street preacher? It's got to be way above average, IMO, and much better than a potato. If a preacher can't turn blood into wine more times than a potato can, I'm calling bull**** on the messiah thing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  11. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    Hmm, somehow i was under the impression Horvat is Bennings guy?

     
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  12. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    Hodgson was drafted 10th..thats high..but based on what we've seen on the rest of Gillis' drafting we can be safely assured that theres a good chance he would have ****ed it up....A clock strikes one,or a squirrel finds a nut .....or whatever those sayings are..?
     
  13. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    Can anyone still find that quote from Linden about Benning "seeing things that others cant see"? Dont know why, but somehow I feel it would be fitting right now.
     
  14. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    8 seconds in (not linden... but the marketing dept):

     
  15. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    And yet Hodgson was still one of the better picks in that draft year. Sure he could have done better but its not like it was a real bad pick. Anyway, i think its been agreed a long time that Gillis sort of sucked at drafting. If that is still the only defense for Benning it has run its course for a long time.
     
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  16. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

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    Haha thanks. Somehow I thought it was Linden, nevertheless its quite hilarious and should always be the automatic response to posts like this:

     
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  17. The Drop

    The Drop Rain Drop, Drop Top

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    And Benning has found a single nut in Boeser. Perhaps another in Peterson.

    Virtanen, McCann, Juolevi are disaster picks. You citing NHL games played as a barometer for NHL success may ring true if the Benning wasn't set to draft at the top of every draft year. As well as shoehorning players that dont belong in the league to boost his own reputation. That entire 2015 draft is mediocre outside of Boeser. 2014 has nothing to show so far. 2016 is a train wreck.

    2017 ? we'll see.
     
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  18. The Drop

    The Drop Rain Drop, Drop Top

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    so to catch up. not drafting players in their 22-28 range is Gillis' fault (i'd say yes) but also it's somehow Gillis' fault that Benning acquired pure trash as age gap solutions (Sutter, Gudbranson, Granlund, Baertshi) and gave up quality assets for them.
     
  19. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    Np, linden has alluded to it as well... right when Benning was hired. I remember, because I thought holy smokes, he's THAT good... and humble too, looking right at the ground when being given accolades as a scouting guru (I like Gillis, but this could work out much better!). It wasn't until later @opendoor made a post that outlined Benning wasn't even there for selections he was given credit for.
     
  20. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    Why are Virtanen,McCann Juolevi "disaster" picks...?...Have they completely busted or something?...and the scouting staff merely fluked out on picking Boeser and Pettersson....?..just a bunch of random flukes ..gotta be...:laugh:
     
  21. Pastor Of Muppetz

    Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    Shinkaruk?:laugh:
     
  22. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    I'd add that there is also not much difference between wasting a 29th pick on a prospect (Jensen), and trading away a 33rd pick in a poor trade (Gudbranson)... a wasted pick is a wasted pick. Those 2nds Benning has wasted are in the same vicinity of the 1sts wasted by the previous regime.
     
  23. Melvin

    Melvin I mean Sponsor

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    GILLLLLIISSSSSSS! ! !
     
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  24. opendoor

    opendoor Registered User

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    The point is, the veteran players in that age range weren't just hanging out for years on the team left over from before. Management had to acquire them as pros and make excellent choices to build a winning team. Benning has tried the same thing in his pro acquisitions, spending vastly more in assets than Chicago did, and he has utterly failed to bring in a single top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman that's on the team right now.

    And Chicago's young core was acquired pretty quickly before that too. The bulk of that team was drafted between 2003 and 2007 and the team was in the Conference Finals by 2009, so a 6 year span. Benning is coming up on his 5th draft, so he's already had almost as much time as the Blackhawks did before they were contenders and yet his team is a catastrophe.
     
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  25. CanaFan

    CanaFan Registered User

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    Disagree. Who was better than Hodgson that we could have reasonably taken at 10 instead?

    Beach? Worse
    Myers? Better
    Teubert? Worse
    Boychuk? Worse
    Karlsson? Brilliant reach by Ottawa but was rated as a late 1st rounder
    Colborne? Worse
    Gardiner? Better
    Pickard? Worse
    Sbisa? Worse


    It’s easy to criticize but other than Karlsson - who again was a reach at 15 let alone 10 - there were no obvious misses in the following 10 picks. Hodgson was the right pick, things just didn’t work out for reasons that are well documented. As it turns out the 2008 draft was pretty dismal after the 4th pick and Hodgson was far from the worst pick taken in that part of the draft.

    Contrast that to Virtanen where there were two obvious and significant misses right after him. Hell, even Fiala (11), Perlini (12), Larkin (15), and Tuch (18) are all forwards looking quite a bit better than Virtanen so far. Turns out 2014 was a pretty strong draft overall and we have one of the worst looking picks out of it.


    And of course Gillis hit on Horvat, so at worst he’s 1.5 / 2 on top 10 picks. And that’s discounting that 9 and 10 are quite a bit lower than 6, 5, and 5.
     
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