Discussion in 'New Jersey Devils' started by Emperoreddy, Apr 9, 2018.
No, Where do you get that?
Saying he disagreed strongly doesn't necessarily mean he posted/argued it. I've been active on this board for 13+ years and have barely over 3k posts. The amount of times I see posts I qualify as stupid **** is wayyyy greater than the amount of times I've posted.
Though yea lurking for 3 years does seem a bit off.
Erik Karlsson show with crucial goals from Bobby Ryan! Like the sound of that!
Seriously, though, that goes right along with my point. I am not portraying Ryan to be Wayne Gretzky. If he was Ottawa would not consider it negative value in a potential trade. But he is a guy who we can take, using cap space as a trade chip instead of additional picks or young players, that can help us land one of the best players in the world who can ALSO drive the net and potentially score a crucial goal (or two) while Taylor Hall, Erik Karlsson, Nico Hischier and friends are driving the Devils deep into spring. I hope. Oh, and Andy Greene!!!
Bringing up points from three years ago so vociferously in like 50 posts this morning = it was argued. Nobody sees something, doesn’t post on something they clearly vehemently disagree with to this extent then all of a sudden brings up a three year old debate out of nowhere over and over again and bring up how right he was when he ostensibly never posted on it to prove it.
And the argument was as stupid then as it is now. Funny how the ‘last two’years of underachieving (really two of three, the one in the middle was overachieving) get used to deride Greene as captain as if this current overachieving season didn’t also happen with Greene wearing the C. Can’t selectively pick and choose years.
Thanks for figuring this all out. You don't have sports points that drive you nuts and stick in your craw?
Ok, whatever works for you - I am a phantom poster - I am a burner account for Jon Merrill. I have somewhere between 1 and 20 screen names. Whatever you want to do here. I really never want to see Andy Greene again.
Valid point on the one overachieving year... this year I tend to credit primarily to Taylor Hall's resurgence. I observed him playing the role of captain in every visible way a fan from my vantage point would be able to see that, from on ice, to interaction with teammates and officials, to standing in front of the media and being the voice of the team. Hall is the actual captain of the team at this point I think most people woul dagree.
Jeeze, some posters here are more unhinged than Mike Hoffman's gf.
I'll see myself out.
For those who subscribe to the Athletic, Cory Masisak has done a great job breaking down the team's individual seasons by centers, wings, defenders and eventually goalies for the past year. It's really worth a read if you haven't done so already.
can we refocus the arguments instead of talking about what he said/she said? this is trending towards personal stuff, and no one cares about that
You're wrong with this. We'd still be giving up plenty of picks, and definitely a young player (or two).
Did you not see what the alleged deal with Vegas was? That was the *discounted* price, because Ryan was involved, and it still involved multiple 1st round picks and Suzuki+/Glass.
We also overachieved in 15-16. It not being an overall good year doesn't mean it wasn't an over-achievement. That team, on paper, was close to bottom 3 territory...but finished 11th (largely on the back of Schneider).
Which absolutely ****ed us out of Clayton Keller.
A: If the Devils could disappear Greene for nothing, they probably should. But given that that isn't possible, they certainly shouldn't buy him out - he's here next year.
B: I don't think who the captain is means a whole lot. Some Devils fans will never get over the fact that there will be captains of this team who aren't Scott Stevens.
C: This 'was a current poster a lurker or poster' discussion is quite bad and is symptomatic of the behavior mentioned earlier - dredging up old debates in an attempt to dunk on other posters.
Yes, I said "additional" picks and young players - as in - less than if we werent taking Ryan. Obviously Karlsson is very expensive for good reason. If you are a team trying to trade for him and don't take Ryan you will have to surrender possibly twice the amount of picks and players. Who knows. But taking Ryan is a big deal in that negotiation, no doubt. And i don't think he would be useless as a David Clarkson contract woudl be for example (relative to bad cap hits). The Devils could also make Ottawa an offer without the Ryan contract but what does that look like? 2018 1, 2019 1, Zacha, Severson, McLeod, Bratt? I mean I'm not even sure what that would look like. I'm not advocating a trade like that I'm just wondering what it would theoretically be.
I don't even want to discuss what it would cost us to acquire Karlsson alone. The organization is in absolutely no position to be purging young talent like that for a blockbuster name.
The only feasible way Karlsson lands in New Jersey is if we take on the Ryan deal; I don't think that's a secret. Ryan at full value is a bad, bad idea in my eyes, but you could certainly make a case for Ryan @ 50%. But then, at the same time, the cost likely goes up.
I'm curious to know what you think we should do with all the cap space we presently have.
Here is the order I would want to do things. Obviously we cannot do all of these things, but this is my ranking of what I would do
1. Sign Tavares
2. Sign Carlson
3. trade for a legit LHD. Jake Muzzin is a guy I keep coming back to. LA is in a cap crunch and he is UFA in a year. Plus, Shero drafted him in Pittsburgh
4. Sign Paul Stastny (if unable to sign Tavares) for 2C on a shorter term, larger dollar contract
because, you know, I never give my own opinion on what I want to do....
I think Severson + McLeod + Zacha + 17th overall for EK (no Ryan) could possibly get it done. Depends on what other offers are out there.
we can't be trading both Zacha and McLeod
we aren't in the position to be doing that type of trade
Look, Karlsson's obviously all world but that's a lot to give up for one guy. We're really not in a position to make that deal.
Going off this:
Mine will be tough because #1 will realistically have to happen before #2. But there's not really a way of doing so unless the 17th overall becomes our 2019 1st rounder.
1. Only if Ray feels he has a legit chance at Tavares... Trade for Karlsson at the draft. Severson Zacha McLeod 17th overall. I would take Ryan at 50% retained to exclude one of PZ MM or 17th.
2. Sign John Tavares 7 years 11.5 million
3. Sign a depth forward (Stafford/Stempniak/Parenteau type)
4. If no Karlsson, stay away from John Carlson UNLESS he signs for 7 million AAV or less on a 5 year deal or less
having Karlsson, JT, AND Hall would definitely take up like 50% of our cap, or well close to it
Talk about going on a limb
Those are all ideas that have been thrown around by 99.9% of this board. My question was probably not clear enough so I'll rephrase it... "If we can't do the obvious, what should we do with all the cap space we have?"
I don't see us signing Tavares or Carlson and this is Stastny's last shot at a big payday, so I don't see why he'd want shorter term for more money.
As for Muzzin, I think there's something that can be done but will the Kings move him, not knowing what's going on with Doughty? That would be a gamble and a half for them because they might be losing their 1st pair in span of 12 months.
Let's say we sign Carlson or trade for Muzzin, we'd still be in the drivers seat cap wise and we can probably add another player in the 5M$ to 8M$ range and not screw up our cap situation.
Look, kidding aside - I'm done arguing for the day.
But this sums up the impasse. This poster, and I'm sure many others, can't stomach the Ryan contract but also can't stomach the idea of trading Zacha and McLeod and 1 or multiple 1's.
So while I acknowledge that signing big ticket UFA's is an option where it is "only" cash/cap with no further assets given, the unwillingness to do these things leaves you with less options to significantly move the needle. I would be ok signing Tavares or Carlson. I'd be happy with both. I think both are unlikely. If the Devils do not do either, what happens then? Yes - the literal answer to that is the Muzzin type trade and Statsny type signing and thats fine. I just see Karlsson and a earthquake type thing that actually changes the franchise and puts our MVP and rest of the cast in a real place to make a run at this thing.
This was already discussed. Hischier Hall Tavares and Karlsson in 2020-21 and beyond would take up about 42-48% of the salary cap, depending on how much it increases
All the loads blown would be worth it.