Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Nopuckluck, Jun 11, 2018.
Coach and the staff is the most important position
A goalie that is able to consistently steal games, e.g. Lundqvist, is a once-in-a-lifetime player. It’s not something you should even expect to happen, let alone plan your roster construction around acquiring one.
That exact poll has been done countless times on HF, the results were probably exactly that.
If goalies were the most important, Hasek’s career would be much much different than it was (for the better)
I mean this pretty much sums it up lol
Some fishy analytics.
#1 CENTER AINEC
Agreed. The posters who voted center probably think if Gordie, Orr, Gretzky, and Lemieux played today they would not be as good as OV.
That goalie you speak of f was that ****ing good in 2014 and it didn’t mean **** in the end.
Lundqvist is the GOAT, yet this team wasn’t.
Top flight Center
And goaltending doesn't exist in a vacuum. A defense that gives up a lot of quality chances and shots against could possibly skew the GAA numbers.
2. How many goals does an elite goaltender prevent compared to a good goaltender and how many goales is an elite center responsible for compared to a good center?
I did some calculations and an elite goaltender has a .43GAx%/60 better than a good goaltender while an elite center has a .86GAx%/60 better than a good center.
Blackhawks won with a hall of fame goaltender? Somehow I missed that.
It's your opinion and my opinion--nothing has changed as far as that's concerned.
As far as 2014 there was a lot of different things happening in that series that went beyond who the centers and goalies were. Rangers were hitting goal posts left and right. Refs were leaning towards the Kings. The Rangers would carry first halves of games with their speed and second halves the Kings would carry by attrition with their physical grinding games.
I have seen Henrik dominate and win series that maybe we shouldn't have and I've seen other goalies do that before too.
RankPlayerHeightWeightBornDiedCareerNationality1Wayne Gretzky6'0"18519611978-1999Canada2Mario Lemieux6'4"23019651984-2006Canada3Jean Béliveau6'3"205193120141950-1971Canada4Howie Morenz5'9"165190219371923-1937Canada5Stan Mikita5'9"16919401958-1980Canada6Mark Messier6'1"21019611978-2004Canada7Bobby Clarke5'10"18519491969-1984Canada8Frank Nighbor5'9"160189319661912-1930Canada9Phil Esposito6'1"20519421963-1981Canada10Joe Sakic5'11"19519691988-2009Canada11Bryan Trotter5'11"19519561975-1994Canada12Fred "Cyclone" Taylor5'8"165188419791905-1923Canada13Steve Yzerman5'11"18519651983-2006Canada14Édouard "Newsy" Lalonde5'9"1680188719701904-1927Canada15Syl Apps, Sr.6'0"185191519981936-1948Canada16Frank Boucher5'8"185190119771921-1938Canada17Henri Richard5'7"16019361955-1974Canada18Milt Schmidt6'0"185191820171936-1955Canada19*Marcel Dionne5'9"19019511971-1989Canada20*Peter Forsberg6'0"20519731990-2011Sweden21Ted Kennedy5'10"170192520091942-1957Canada22Sidney Crosby5'11"20019872005-presentCanada23Joe Malone5'10"150189019691910-1924Canada24Max Bentley5'10"155192019841940-1954Canada25Norm Ullman5'10"17519351955-1977Canada26Elmer Lach5'10"165191820151940-1954Canada27Bill Cowley5'10"165191219931934-1947Canada28Nels Stewart6'1"195190219571925-1940Canada29Sergei Fedorov (Fyodorov)6'2"20719691986-2009Russia30Sid Abel5'11"170191820001938-1954Canada31Dave Keon5'9"16519401960-1982Canada32Doug Gilmour5'11"17719631983-2003Canada33Alexander Maltsev5'9"16919491967-1984Russia34Joe Thornton6'4"22019791997-presentCanada35Ron Francis6'3"20019631981-2004Canada36Peter Šťastný6'1"20019561975-1995Slovakia37Alex Delvecchio6'0"19519321950-1974Canada38Eric Lindros6'4"24019731992-2007Canada39Adam Oates5'11"19019621985-2004Canada40Evgeni Malkin6'3"19519862003-presentRussiahttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/hoh-top-60-centers-of-all-time.1531045/
There's 40 current or will be HoF centers. Name 40 current or will be HoF goalies. You can't, because goalies are the hardest to find. Nuff said.
Whoops meant the 90s Blackhawks, which I placed in the second spot.
In all fairness, in their cup runs, they did get "HHOF" performances from some unexpected goalies such as Niemi.
Nonetheless, your snark and nitpick was vapid and provided nothing to the conversation aside from derailing it. If you actually have a counterpoint in your skull, please share with the group.
Or because centers impact games more, so they get more recognition in terms of the Hall of Fame
My point is, and it's sort of sad, that we will never see as strong as a performance from any other goalie in our lifetime, yet we still didn't win.
The GOAT Ranger goalie who is a future first ballot Hal of fame had a hall of fame playoffs, and still lost and had to scarp our way in to the finals with not HHOF top 3.
My point about "case closed" is in no way knocking Lundqvist.
I've said many times to these ding-dongs on here that had you put Lundqvist during his peak on the New Era™ Penguins or Blackhawks, either one of those teams would have at least 6 cups.
Muggsy Bogues is the most important player in NBA history because the NBA HOF is filled with so many tall players.
The NHL employs 120 centers and 60 goaltenders.
Gee, maybe there's more centers in the HOF because there's more centers.
Stop throwing facts at us, man.
I do truly love this thread.
Thank you @Nopuckluck
Best gift ever.
Your best players have to play their best for your team to win a Stanley Cup. Henrik held up his end but IMO more of the Kings best players held up their end than Rangers players. I really don't want to beat the dead horse of Rick Nash again though. Still if he'd have been a factor throughout those playoffs and played like a first line goal scorer and a leader maybe--just maybe we would have squeaked it out. And no I don't want him back.
Did we have a center as good as Kopitar? No.
Did we have a defenseman as good as Doughty? No.
But we were also eaten up by guys like Gaborik or Justin Williams. They had more guys that stepped up. There were turning points though--people can point to Girardi's stick snapping in one game or Dwight King clearly running over Henrik in another which led a second later to a goal and got the Kings back in that particular game.
I'm saying it's the inherent limit of the position.
Furthermore, if you refer to my OP, there is a reason the Suter era Kings fall into the powerhouse territory [2/3 ain't bad] vs GOAT/Dynasty territory..
Also, the Rangers have 4 cups in their history, 3 with #16 on this list [the 1940 cup was when he was a player/coach] and the 4th cup was with 6 on this list.
The top center on the 1940 team, Bryan Hextall, would have also made this list if his career totals weren't skewed because of sickness and WW2.
And since we are going for a throwback, The Gumper was one of the GOAT, yet his 4 cups were with Montreal when he slightly less good, fatter, and way drunker in Montreal than he ever was in Midtown.