Value of: NYR - MON and CAL

Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by bernmeister, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. Double Dion

    Double Dion Jets fan 30/06/2013

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    Good proposal on the Flames side. Fox is a stud, but there is uncertainty about him signing. Zuccarello has the value I'd be looking for in a Fox trade, but he is more of a playmaker. If I'm Treliving I'm looking for a shooter. The Flames have plenty of guys who can create chances but only 2 good shooters.
     
  2. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Maybe a bit above average, but not much. Picks are definitely fetishized here in return for established star players, but Skjei isn't that. I'd much rather bet on Hughes becoming a #1 defenseman than Skjei. Adding a good but not great prospect like Howden isn't going to tip the scale for me.
     
  3. haveandare

    haveandare Registered User

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    Sergachev just scored 40 as a rookie and people think his value is off the charts. 39 points for a rookie d man is well above average. Thats more than Ekblad, Giordano or Werenski scored this year.

    Having said that, yeah I could see MTL not taking the deal and I wouldn't offer it from an NYR standpoint.
     
  4. Captain Wolverine

    Captain Wolverine Registered User

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    Sergachev is 19 years old. Skjei was 22-23 when he achieved that.

    And I'm not sure bringing up Sergachev is going to convince Montreal fans that the team should give up the 3rd OA. If anything it does the opposite.
     
  5. haveandare

    haveandare Registered User

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    I said I could see them not taking that deal. I'm not advocating for it at all for either side, just disputing the idea that Skjei's rookie season was average. Regardless of age, 39 points from a rookie d-man is certainly above average.
     
  6. draft day

    draft day Registered User

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    Garbage proposal.Your not getting the Habs 2019 1st let alone an unprotected 1st.Habs will keep their pick.
     
  7. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    Thanks!
    Zuc is not an elite sniper, but he does have an effective shot, and both due to it and his moves, he is useful on shoot outs.

    Not sure a guy who is a better pure shooter but a lesser overall player is satisfactory to Flames.

    A stud sniper who can do it wall will be a huge amount more, assuming he is even made available.

    So, given delayed and conditional reimbursement only if Fox walks, and instant help w/Zuc and dibs on extending, I assume your vote would be yes.
     
  8. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    A. You are grossly undervaluing Skjei. The 39 pts his rookie campaign shows potential to put up adequate points in right system -- we all know NY was a mess last year and thank God AV is gone. The tools are there.

    B. More importantly, he has the ability to put it all together and play great defense. Clearly and indisputably, he is the younger version of McDonagh before all the injuries, caused in part, I don't doubt from the Torts block shots too much system, compounded by AV.

    He has the wheels, he is a great skater, forwards and backwards. Not Kreider or Larkin or that elite a level, but the eyes don't lie.

    ------------

    We have moved on from the OP, although it remains viable for discussion here.

    Skjei and 9OA are on the table, Howden is off.

    3OA is the core coming back, but Montreal MUST add. Skjei is worth more than falling back 6 spots.

    I assert
    3OA worth more than Skjei [best case, is a deal for 5OA in a vacuum]
    and
    immediate 9OA is guesstimated worth more than delayed 2019 Montreal 1st

    the above are not =, so NY adds something, which I suggested be both their 2nds this year.
     
  9. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    Feel free to suggest an alternative that NYR can accept since
    Skjei + 9OA
    is worth more than only
    3OA
     
  10. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    The floor is open to what Habs will add to 3OA and what, if anything Rangers will add further to balance.
     
  11. Spooky Actions

    Spooky Actions Registered User

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    Value wise is there...but too hard to give up the thunder of making 3rd overall.
     
  12. LetsGoFlames

    LetsGoFlames Drop the puck!

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    I'd vote no on the Fox for Zucc deal. We have to add compensation if Fox walks but we get no compensation if Zucc walks. And I can't imagine we'd want to pick him up just to trade him at the trade dealine. I guess we'd have until then to try to work out an extension and in theory could trade him if it becomes clear there's no extension to be had, but that also means he'd be subtracted from our team heading into the playoffs, if we're in such a spot. I'd rather pursue other options and would very much prefer a right shot RW. It's a no in my opinion, though the value seems good, for what it's worth.
     
  13. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    thanks for acknowledgment
    just fyi, the OP has responded to feedback, and earlier versions with Howden or without 9OA are out, and Skjei + 9OA by NY as well as 3OA by Habs are set.
    Your no vote is cast, since the issue for you is keeping 3OA regardless of value.
    But as many Habs would take a solid piece if they still had top 10 selection and Ranger fans wanna move up, while all comments are welcome, the floor is particularly looking for what MON add, and if necessary, in response what does NY add, with the core of the deal requiring add(s) being
    3OA +
    for
    Skjei + 9OA [possible + based on what Canadiens + is]
     
  14. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    Thank you for the detailed, well articulated no vote.
    I get how esp w/def we wanna try and stay L-R at sides.
    That said, Zuc has experience at RW, and plays either based on who linemates are. Conceded, a righty Zuc is an even better, more ideal match, but lefty Zuc is an acceptable fallback position [in the sense that you could do a lot worse].

    However, the other aspect you brought up is a good point.
    I can only say that Zuc as a UFA vet would obviously control his future, but at least you would get the year out of him and you would have inside dibs to extend him on a # you both like. {I agree that should be the strategy, not trading him in mid season, although, depending on what the return is as a rental if a team is desperate enough, it might be a profitable fallback of something later and actual Zuc for half a year.}

    Obviously, I go there b'c I expect Rangers to sign Fox, but there are no guarantees. Kid has all the cards, can go to school, wait, redraft, possibly higher. Presumably same initial elc $, but still...

    I wouldn't say signing Fox is harder than extending Zuc.

    I am saying even tho Rangers on paper, w/need for RD, are an immediate fit which CAL is not, there are no guarantees either way.

    We have to hope Kreider tells him, start your career early if you cut it and do college/grad/post grad further studies in the off season. Hire a tutor or two to help you here in NY during personal time, you can afford it, and NY is closer to Boston for school appearances during off season.

    Thanks for the post.
     
    LetsGoFlames likes this.
  15. Spooky Actions

    Spooky Actions Registered User

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    Hard to pass on a core player projected to be a Hossa type.
     
  16. Omar

    Omar Registered User

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    Montreal needs to start drafting high end talent. Enough with the dilution.
     
  17. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    Another no, prefers the higher pick. Thanks for voting.

    It is clear there has to be a high enough pick involved, which is why 9OA has been finalized in play.
    Remains to be seen if opinion prefers 2 assets in top 10, including one known and immediately available, or 1 pick only with higher boom potential.
     

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