Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Mr. Canucklehead, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Dab

    Dab Registered User

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    Do the overly optimistic folks who throw out the “we still have to wait and see if he can be better than his draft peers...” are offering very thin gruel to skeptics?

    This is like saying well we have to wait and see if climate change leads to extinction, no point in guessing prematurely!
     
  2. Shareefruck

    Shareefruck Registered User

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    I feel like you ignored my question/the scrutiny that I'm placing on your suggestion.

    The problem I see with your suggestion is that, often, claims of hyperbole is total guesswork, especially when disingenuous reasoning is not at play. An extreme opinion does not automatically suggest hyperbole, and there aren't reasonable grounds to label something as hyperbole purely on the basis that it happens to be an extreme opinion where you disagree with the severity but can understand the reasoning (because the possibility that this isn't a case of hyperbole is totally valid). The only way to justify such an assumption that I can think of is that either you think that it's impossible for an extreme opinion to potentially be accurate (eg. no player can be worthless), or if you think that, even in the event that it is accurate, it's still unacceptable because it's so harsh. Do either of those justifications represent where you stand, or is there a third justification that you have, and if so, what is that? Some answer is necessary to explain WHY you don't respect that opinion and how you can be certain that it must be hyperbole.

    To answer your question.... you can understand from the above why I think that extreme opinions without disingenuous reasoning does not create toxicity. On the flip side, I would say that disingenuous reasoning is toxic even when there is no hyperbole at play-- there's not really a necessary correlation between the two. For example, if I have a moderately skeptical and grounded opinion about something, someone might baselessly suggest that the reason for that minor bit of skepticism is a tiny bit of ill will that I have against Benning-- not an outright villainous agenda or anything, just a subconscious bias pushing slightly in that direction. That's a completely baseless and disingenuous argument, even without the use of any hyperbole, and it's still every bit as toxic.

    If anything, you could argue that it's more toxic, because the more vague, subtle and wishy-washy the baseless accusation, the less of an opportunity you're giving someone to defend themselves from it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  3. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

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    I did... because you are typing a lot words and I honestly did not read all of it because you seem to be getting a little semanical and long worded.. You have seem to have different parameters of what you think leads to toxicity of a board and I have a simple one.... so we'll agree to disagree instead of running in circles. Instead of trying to get last word in I'll let it die.
     
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  4. Shareefruck

    Shareefruck Registered User

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    Surely those different parameters should be put under a microscope to see if they're actually reasonable. Otherwise, we're just listening to our simple, stubborn guts and covering our ears about any possibility that we might be behaving in a manner that's wrong/unfair.

    I apologize for the long-windedness, but I feel that it's necessary to get my point across without it being taken as a blunt insult to you and to avoid misrepresenting what I mean.

    Afterall, there can be a lot of "nuance" to the argument that gets unfairly ignored (in favor of just quick assumptions that unpleasant = hyperbole), which as you agreed earlier, only creates more toxicity, even if it's unintended.

    But that's fine if you don't want to discuss further.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  5. brokenhole

    brokenhole Registered User

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    Dr Recchi>Dr Benning.
     
  6. PuckMunchkin

    PuckMunchkin Registered User

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    You are pretty bad at articulating your points of view so lets just agree to disagree.
     
  7. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

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    good to hear..
    On the lesser side of severity.

    28-42 days recovery...
    90ish days till camp...

    At least it means we'll get a good version of him at camp.. not his best, but a version close to it..
     
  8. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

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    You good at ironically 'entirely' disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.
     
  9. PuckMunchkin

    PuckMunchkin Registered User

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    Wasn't ironic. You just didn't understand my point. Its fine. Lets just agree to disagree again.

    (Sry... off topic etc.)
     
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  10. Seattle Totems

    Seattle Totems Registered User

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    Tkachuk was consistently ranked in the top 4 in pre-draft rankings and ahead of Juolevi in every major ranking. Juolevi was not in the same tier. Fans slammed the pick because the Canucks were clearly taking position over BPA. Even proponents of the pick largely agreed that this was the case and accepted it based on the thinking that top 4 defencemen are a commodity and that the recent Taylor Hall trade had changed the market.

    Pettersson may not have been everyone's first choice on draft day but the vast majority were at least on board because his upside was sky high and he wasn't really that much of a reach. I don't recall a lot of criticism about the pick. What I do recall is fans being critical about the Canucks not being able to get a gimme 2nd round pick from Vegas because Benning isn't a great negotiator.
     
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  11. Wo Yorfat

    Wo Yorfat dumb person

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    No problem. You can't judge defensemen until their 2nd or 3rd back surgery.
     
  12. CanaFan

    CanaFan Registered User

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    “Patients”
     
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  13. PuckMunchkin

    PuckMunchkin Registered User

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    Oh lord thats cold
     
  14. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

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    Back or no back, Juolevi has to beat out some left-side d-man on the existing Canucks roster.....this shouldn't be tough for a fifth over all draft pick, but sadly unless there's a trade of an existing blueliner, in all likelihood Juolevi starts the year Utica anyway.
     
  15. cookiefest

    cookiefest nothing matters anyway.

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    Friedman saying on his 650 hit today that he's heard the Canucks are worried that Juolevi's potentially been beaten before he's even started.
     
  16. pgj98m3

    pgj98m3 Registered User

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    Cause apparently he's a precious flower that is upset that there are expectations for a top 5 pick.
     
  17. Etteduag ot Reseob

    Etteduag ot Reseob Kesaj ot Drassarb

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    This is a disaster man o man this is speechless crap of disappointment folks :(
     
  18. ShouldveDraftedFiala

    ShouldveDraftedFiala Registered User

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    bust. hope we draft D with our first 3 picks this year.
     
  19. Breakers

    Breakers Registered User

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    This to me is the biggest setback in his development. You couldn't have picked a worse time for this to happen.

    I mean I'd rather he got injured half way through the season so at least we know what we have going forward.
     
  20. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

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    He needs the same treatment that Virtanen got in Utica.....ride the buses...play three games in three nights and get the crap beaten out of him along the wall....He'll either adjust or eventually go home.
     
  21. Breakers

    Breakers Registered User

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    I agree.
    I'm always for players starting in the AHL.
    No prospect in history has probably ever been damaged from taking it slow.
     
  22. Slads

    Slads Can't-stand-ya

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    Come on, guys. Can we give him a bit of time to recover, resume training, get some games under his belt, etc. before we all go off the deep end? Any kind of bad news on the kid and it’s almost the end of the world in here. Let’s just chill out and see what happens. Maybe he doesn’t work out and maybe he does but how bout we don’t label him either way just yet. As Aaron Rodgers once put it, “R-E-L-A-X... relax.”
     
  23. Canucks1096

    Canucks1096 Registered User

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    I still think Juolevi can become number 3/4 D. But worry at all.
     
  24. Old school nuckles

    Old school nuckles Registered User

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    The sky is falling screamed Chicken Little , oh what shall we do ...
     
  25. ziploc

    ziploc Registered User

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    Speechless Crap of Disappointment sounds like the name of a band that would be the opening act at The Rickshaw.
     
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