Value of: Toronto - Calgary (Nylander + Hamilton)

Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by HockeyGuruPitka, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. HockeyGuruPitka

    HockeyGuruPitka Registered User

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    Hamilton seems to have all of the tools yet consistently finds himself in trade talk. Begs the question as to why. Somewhat leaves a cautious feeling around wanting to acquire him however assuming he has no character flaws my thoughts were something around Nylander + Gardiner + 1st for Hamilton. I feel that Leaf fans will find this too rich, however logic is as follows.

    Nylander - The piece of most intrigue for the flames. Developing into an elite offensive player, with extremely high offensive upside. Convertible player that can play wing or c. Will be on your first unit PP. Plays with high skill and speed. Has a thick frame and can play down low in the corners. Still learning how to play consistently and compete consistently. I see a lot of similarities here to a very young Tyler Seguin. I hope for leafs fans that I am wrong.

    Gardiner - UFA at years end and the Leafs unlikely to pay the price tag to keep him around and will not be sellers at the TDL. Now is the time to find Gardiner's replacement and get a player that is reasonably signed over a few extra years. Included in the deal for Calgary in order to replace the minutes lost by Hamilton. If the flames find themselves in a need to sell at the TDL Gardiner will recoup a good chunk of assets. If the flames are well into the playoffs they can keep him and have first dibs at potentially signing him long term.

    1st - 24th overall. Calgary was looking to get back into the first round and this is one way to do that. Leafs have a cupboard full of prospects on the Marlies and can likely afford to part ways with this pick.


    Hamilton – Babcock loves having guys that can play on their natural side. Currently not an option for the Leafs on their top pair with Rielly paired with LHD Ron Hainsey. Gives them the option that they have been looking for and really solidifies the top pair and in turn balances out the rest of the d core.
     
  2. X66

    X66 Registered User

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    Way too much of an over payment on Toronto's end IMHO.

    Nylander by next year could be worth more than Hamilton alone, just have to hold on to him until then.
     
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  3. Tall Morty

    Tall Morty Probably drunk Sponsor

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    This topic has been beaten to death, but the Leafs don’t need another offensive defenseman, and especially not at the cost of Nylander++.
     
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  4. JohnnyT91

    JohnnyT91 main board Leaf poster

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    Take out Nylander and add a 2nd. that pkg of Nylander+1st+Gards is way way way way too much. More realistic would be 1st+2nd+Lilj
     
  5. Baksfamous112

    Baksfamous112 Registered User

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    I just don’t see how a 60 pts Winger can be worth more than a #1 RHD. I just can’t...
     
  6. X66

    X66 Registered User

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    What if Nylander is an 80 point winger next year or a 70 point center?

    I wouldn't say Hamilton is a #1 D either, there are so few of those out there. He's a top pairing guy for sure, but not a true number 1 game changer.

    A lot can change in a year.
     
  7. Volica

    Volica CFHF Unofficial, Official Tour Guide

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    Yeah, no it wouldn't be.
     
  8. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    Huge overpayment. Not even remotely tempting. our top 3 dmen going from Rielly+Gardiner+Dermott to Rielly+Hamilton+Dermott is not worth losing Nylander and a 1st
     
  9. Volica

    Volica CFHF Unofficial, Official Tour Guide

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    I'd put money on the guy who's improved year over year in Hamilton to round out to a top D, when he's already a bonafide 2D on a tremendous pairing; then Nylander getting 20 more points, not sure which PDO metric would have to increase for that, as he's already near the top of the league.
     
  10. Gaudfather

    Gaudfather Johnny Hockey

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    Leaf fans wouldn't want to do 1 for 1... do you think they would do all these ++s for him?
     
  11. Brock Radunske

    Brock Radunske 안양종합운동장 빙상장

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    You've lost your mind.
    The only response you'd get from Dubas would be a belly laugh followed by a dial-tone.
     
  12. Baksfamous112

    Baksfamous112 Registered User

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    A lot can change in a year but I doubt Nylander has the talent to even put 75 pts and I think it’s safe to say that the chances of him being a successful C are rather low.
     
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  13. Critical91

    Critical91 Nylander, roll a Charisma check.

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    I would do a 1v1 swap.

    A perfect Nylander deal would be a 1v1 hockey trade. Young top pairing D for a young top pairing F with C potential. Hamilton, Parayko, Ekblad, Dumba, Sergachev, Hanifin...If we aren't getting a player of that quality, I am not 100% sure why we would deal Willy. Would rather just see what he becomes if we're not excited with the package coming back.

    Only time I budge on this philosophy is if we bring in a big UFA (Doughty next year, Tavares this year). Then salary becomes an issue, and I relent a little on the 1v1 aspect. Then I might be interested in an Ellis+prospect type of deal.
     
  14. HockeyGuruPitka

    HockeyGuruPitka Registered User

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    I just watched the Leafs get eliminated in the 1st round without getting any value out of JVR or Bozak. I'm not interested in seeing the same thing happen with Gardiner. I'd rather throw him in as a sweatener for a guy like Hamilton then lose him for nothing.

    Sens paid Turris (Gardiner) 2019 1st (Nylander) Shane Bowers (24th overall) + 3rd rd pick for 2 years of 27 y/o Matt Duchene at 6maav

    For me, the price i've offered is fair for 3 years of 24 y/o Hamilton who comes from the GTA.

    The price ive offerend doesnt really come close to what the avs got for Duchene in total.

    Let me preface however that the sens or avs didnt expect the 2019 1st rd pick to be so high. Unfortunately for Ottawa it is.
     
  15. Critical91

    Critical91 Nylander, roll a Charisma check.

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    Nylander
    20 year old season - 22g, 39a, 61pt in 81GP - 0.75ppg
    21 year old season - 20g, 41a, 61pt in 82 GP - 0.75ppg

    Scheifele
    20 year old season - 13g, 21a, 34pt in 63GP - 0.54ppg
    21 year old season - 15g, 34a, 49pt in 82GP - 0.60ppg

    Forsberg
    20 year old season - 26g, 37a, 63pt in 82GP - 0.73ppg
    21 year old season - 33g, 31a, 64pt in 82GP - 0.78ppg

    Did you write off Scheif and Forsberg too?
     
  16. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

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    This is the problem discussing value with some Leaf fans. Their 60 point player for some reason has 80 point value. Not that there isn’t potential left in Nylander but the same can be said for the defenseman who is only 2 years older.
     
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  17. Liferleafer

    Liferleafer Bob's assclown

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    I'll break the OP down for those that don't want to read all that:

    Cal
    Nylander
    Gardiner
    1st

    Tor
    Hamilton

    Ya, that looks even worse when you take all that fluff out....easy pass from me.
     
  18. Liferleafer

    Liferleafer Bob's assclown

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    I doubt you are correct.
     
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  19. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

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    why do you doubt it? he is only 22 years old, has had back to back 61 point seasons, and is probably going to be playing an elite center who will probably put up 40 goals next season
     
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  20. X66

    X66 Registered User

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    Maybe you should re-read my post. It might help.
     
  21. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

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    leafs will decline this offer and rightfully so. it too much to give up hamilton.
     
  22. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    why should the Leafs use a bad trade as a model for what they would do exactly? I guess we should move Liljegren (Forsberg) for Brouwer (Erat) next

    a reactionary trade where the Leafs give up way too much value just because you're sad that the Leafs lost in the playoffs isn't smart, sorry.
     
  23. Baksfamous112

    Baksfamous112 Registered User

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    Sure.
     
  24. Flamesjustwin

    Flamesjustwin Registered User

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    And the very first post is why Leaf fans will never be taken seriously. Nylander is not going to be worth more than Hamilton. This would be like me saying Tkachuk by next year could be worth more than Matthews alone, you just have to hold onto him until then.
     
  25. HockeyGuruPitka

    HockeyGuruPitka Registered User

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    NHL works a lot on precedent when negotiating trades and contracts. If we use the most recent Duchene trade as an example.

    Duchene

    for

    OTT 2019 1st
    NSH 2nd
    OTT 3rd-
    Shane Bowers (1st)
    Vladislav Kamanev (2nd)
    Sam Girard (2nd)
     

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